Vermont Public kicked off its series of primary election debates on Thursday with the two candidates seeking the Democratic nomination for governor.
Contending for the nomination are Esther Charlestin of Middlebury — a small business owner, co-chair of the Vermont Commission on Women, and a former Middlebury Select Board member — and Peter Duval of Underhill — a sailing instructor, substitute teacher, and a former Underhill Select Board member.
Voters can weigh in on the race in Vermont’s state primaries on Aug. 13 (and early voting is already underway). The winner will face Republican Gov. Phil Scott in November.
During the Vermont Public debate, the candidates differed on many topics including housing policy, growing the state’s population and addressing the opioid crisis. Below are key highlights, followed by a full transcript of the debate.
Housing
The candidates had differing approaches to how they would address Vermont’s shortage of affordable housing. “It’s a problem,” Charlestin said, “and something with the size of our state we can fix.” Her focus would be on creating more high-quality transitional housing and addressing regulatory barriers to building more housing, such as changing zoning policies.
Meanwhile, Duval said he would prioritize “quality sleep” over permanent housing solutions. “Housing is not on the hierarchy of needs. Sleep, shelter — these are much more basic needs that humans have,” he said. He would invest in tiny houses and pods, such as Burlington’s downtown pod community. He also supports the shared equity land trust model.
Population growth
When asked about the need to encourage Vermonters to stay in-state, Duval questioned whether the state did have a retention problem. “It's just a small state. It’s small an area but even smaller in population size,” he said. He said he is not concerned with college students leaving Vermont after graduation, and called the state’s old relocation grant program “an awesome gimmick.”
Charlestin believes that addressing affordability will make the state a more attractive place to live. She proposed increasing Medicaid eligibility so more Vermonters have access to affordable health insurance. She also cited walkable downtowns and affordable child care as ways to attract more people to the state. “So child care, housing, and health care, because all that is important to make it worthwhile,” she said.
Illegal opioid use
Charlestin would focus her response to the opioid crisis on educating young people about the harmful effects of illegal drugs, in part through working with school districts. She also believes Medicaid should cover stays in 90-day treatment centers. At the end of her answer, she paused, then added that she would be “working with police to make sure it's cracked down.”
Duval said he does not believe safe injection sites — also known as overdose prevention centers — would address the root cause of the drug crisis, which he believes is the supply of illegal drugs in Vermont. “The way to address that is to get the supply back into official channels — back to the point where doctors are prescribing medications for addiction,” he said, “and having a safer supply that causes the underground market to shrivel up. And with a stronger interdiction program,” he said, “I think we can close the spigot on new users.”
Transcript
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers and have been lightly edited for concision and clarity. They may contain errors, so please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
Qualifications
Mitch Wertlieb: Peter, what is motivating you to run for governor? And why do you think you're the most qualified Democratic candidate to unseat Gov. Phil Scott?
Peter Duval: Well, I'm most qualified because I've been here in Vermont for a good long time and participated in a lot of public policy discussions, and had some really good successes on some big projects like the Circ Highway, that Essex Technical Center proposal to relocate that and we've stopped that. And I just feel like anybody with good critical thinking skills and communication skills can probably do the job. And there's a good bureaucracy that the governor takes care of, and folks who work in government know their business. It's not like we have to know everything there is to know about state government in order for it to continue to operate effectively.
Mitch Wertlieb: Now, according to Vermont campaign finance filings, you did not file campaign finance disclosure forms for the July 1 filing deadline. That means you didn't roll over any funds from a previous campaign. You've raised or spent less than $500 for the current period. I'm just wondering how you plan to educate voters about your platform with so little cash on hand?
Peter Duval: Well, first of all, there was a little bit that rolled over, I just didn't understand that it created an exception to the $500 minimum threshold for reporting. And we'll straighten that out for the Aug. 1 deadline. But still, my revenue and expenses were still well below $500 for both cycles combined. And the thing is, it doesn't cost any money to come talk to you. And this is perhaps the biggest opportunity we have to talk to a lot of Vermonters and it doesn't require a big campaign budget or staff. I just need to come and have a chat with you.
Mitch Wertlieb: Well, we're glad you're here. Esther Charlestin, same first question to you: What is motivating you to run for governor, and why do you think you're qualified to unseat Gov. Phil Scott?
Esther Charlestin: Well, I'm running for governor because I am invested in this amazing state. I have two beautiful children who inspire me and help me think about the future. And so they are my inspiration, but also wanting everyone in Vermont to thrive as I think about our housing issues, having experienced it myself. I know that it's important that we deal with these issues head on and having somebody at the table who understands them on a personal level as well as a policy level and willing to work with legislators is why I believe I'm the person.
Mitch Wertlieb: Now, you know that Gov. Phil Scott is one of the most popular governors in the country, according to polling, and he gets a lot of support from Democrats, even though he's a Republican in this state. What would your message be to Democratic voters to convince them to, you know, leave their support for Gov. Scott and support you instead?
Esther Charlestin: I would say this is our time, it is our time to vote blue. And as I think about as Kamala Harris is rising, and we want to be true Democrats. First I would say, though, there are those who are lukewarm, so those are the folks that I would talk to first. But getting my message out there by meeting folks and letting them know who I am and answering their questions is the best way to do it.
Housing
Mitch Wertlieb: You mentioned housing briefly that you'd experienced some issues. What did you mean by that?
Esther Charlestin: Yeah, I was a renter who had two of my landlords say, "Hey, I'm ready to sell my house." Understandable with the climate. And it was hard to find housing again. So understanding how scarce housing is right now, and how much it costs. And so at the time, it was out of reach for me to buy those homes. So it's important that we make it accessible for all.
Mitch Wertlieb: Okay, we're gonna get into some housing questions now. The Vermont Housing Finance Agency projects that Vermont needs at least 30,000 more homes by the year 2030 to meet demand. Bettina from Grand Isle wrote to us to say that everyone talks about affordability and lack of housing yet no one seems to offer suggestions in order to achieve that. Esther, let me ask you this question first, since we did talk to you about housing, what measures are you proposing to address Vermont's housing crisis?
Esther Charlestin: Absolutely. I believe the housing crisis is multifaceted. And so it's important that we understand, yes, we have to do investments, but we also have to address the regulatory barriers. And my administration, we would be committed to supporting changes in zoning policies, and to help remove those barriers. And that includes exploring options for low to middle income families so that they can rent or purchase homes. I think about making transition housing accessible and the quality, making sure that we have a housing first model for those — making sure people are housed first, and then let's figure out how to make that happen and keep them housed in a way that's sustainable. And so not only have folks get housing, but stay in their housing.
Mitch Wertlieb: Peter, let me turn that question to you. What about the housing crisis? What are some practical measures that you could propose to address this housing crisis in Vermont?
Peter Duval: Well, I think it's important to distinguish and separate the two ideas of long-term market situation for housing, and then immediate need for shelter, just as Brenda Siegel recommended last cycle. For the short term, I think, you know, production of tiny houses and pods would be something that could happen pretty quickly. And I can make, give more details elsewhere. The housing market is supposed to be a market that corrects itself. And I think the problem here is not just that there's a shortage of housing. Usually, when there's a shortage of something, there's also an excess of something. And it may be that there's an excess of demand for housing, and we can adjust the demand, deal with the demand by restoring the size of households — household sizes have been shrinking. And I think there's an opportunity to get working on the demand side of things, and it'll be a lot quicker than building new stuff.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK. Esther Charlestin, Joey from Burlington asks, "How are you planning to address the need for housing the homeless both in the short and the long term?" And I think you were referring to that a little bit in your first answer. But this is a big problem for unhoused Vermonters.
Esther Charlestin: Absolutely, and I'll go back to the transition it is, I will name it is a big problem. I was actually in Burlington not too long ago and just seeing people in front of the library and people sleeping on the sidewalks. So, yes, we're seeing it. And from my understanding, the numbers have grown, especially since 2020. And so yes, it's a problem and something with our, the size of our state we can fix. And my approach to it is supporting the transitional housing projects. So that means expanding the accessibility and quality of the traditional housing projects, making sure they're in alignment with housing first. So getting people there first, and then figuring it out.
Mitch Wertlieb: Peter, same question for you. How are you planning to address the need for housing for the homeless population in Vermont, both in the short and the long term?
Peter Duval: Well, in the short term, creating places for quality sleep. I think that's an important point, that housing is not on the hierarchy of needs. Sleep, shelter, these are much more basic needs that humans have. And by addressing that, I think we can do it quickly and effectively. Making sure that there are good, private, secure places to sleep available to someone year-round, 24 hours a day, so that they always have access to their own space. And I think making that shift in thinking from housing with everybody's got to have an apartment or a house to the most important thing is to be able to sleep effectively, and address that first for everyone, and we'll have a much better situation.
Mitch Wertlieb: Matt in Chittenden County, through our Citizens Agenda, writes, "How will you address housing costs in Vermont in a way that's different from Gov. Scott's approach?" Esther, let me turn that question to you first.
Esther Charlestin: So making sure we have affordable housing for folks who can't afford a half a million dollar house. We have programs like the Champlain, I'm forgetting the name right now, but we have programs where that assists first-time homebuyers and making sure those are readily available, that people are getting the message. So having an education campaign working with different nonprofits to get the word out and really get folks invested, and knowing that they can have a chance to and they don't have to move out of Vermont, to find affordable housing.
Mitch Wertlieb: And Peter Duval, what about what Matt is asking here on our Citizens Agenda question, addressing housing costs in a way that's different from what Gov. Scott has been doing so far?
Peter Duval: Well, that the shared equity land trust model works. So I think continue that for sure, as strongly as possible. But to do something different, we need to look at what we think of as housing, what are the essential elements of housing, and are the building codes and expectations in the market? You know, eyes bigger than stomachs, because it does cost a lot of money to build new buildings on green sites. So I think the key thing is to focus on lower cost, not just dealing with affordability, which is a price issue, but the actual cost of construction and development so that we have a durable repair or fix for the problem.
Affordability, young people, property taxes
Mitch Wertlieb: OK, let's talk about affordability here. Vermont has the second worst retention record for students leaving the state after college graduation. So a person from Windham County asks via the Citizens Agenda, "What are you going to do to make Vermont more affordable and more attractive for young people?" Peter Duval, let me ask you that question first. That question to you first, to get young people, you know, to stay in this state, what can we do?
Peter Duval: Well, I'm going to ask about the premise. I mean, it's a small state. We have — small in area but even smaller in population size. We wouldn't want to demand that kids stick around, you know, lower Manhattan for their entire lives. There's a big world out there. I think it's fine that Vermont kids, and Vermont college students from away take a turn and go somewhere else, check it out. Send some remittance back to Vermont, of course, and come back later when, you know, there's something good for them to do when they're in Vermont.
Mitch Wertlieb: Well, what do you think of the incentive programs like the — it's defunct now, but the worker relocation incentive program that pays people to relocate to Vermont? Would that be something you'd be interested in?
Peter Duval: Well, that was an awesome gimmick. And I don't think I don't think it's necessary now, to pay people to come to Vermont, it's, maybe there are people who want to leave Vermont, and they're having trouble getting out of their homes or getting into home somewhere else, I think that might be an area to look at. The idea of incentives is, takes money. And sometimes regular direct regulation is more effective and costs nothing.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK, Esther Charlestin now bringing this question to you about affordability again, sorry for that getting out of order there. Again, second worst retention record for students leaving the state after college graduation. What would you do to make Vermont more affordable, more attractive for young people?
Esther Charlestin: I've worked in a college setting for over 10 years and worked three years at Middlebury College. So I've seen folks come and go, and people who are from here also go. And so I do know how hard it is for folks to make a life here, especially if you don't have family here or figuring it out. So what I would do differently, absolutely increase eligibility for Medicaid, so making sure that they can have health insurance while they're here. Housing is a huge one. Having housing downtown, make it walkable for folks would be more attractive to folks. Making sure child care is just vibrant, and that we have enough child care for folks. And if they need assistance, that they know what the resources are, we have great resources already in the state but getting the word out is really, really important. So child care, housing, and health care. Because all that is important to make it worthwhile.
Mitch Wertlieb: And what types of businesses, Esther, would you like to attract to Vermont to keep younger generations coming here?
Esther Charlestin: Well, I would love to encourage the entrepreneurs who are already here, and those who can come and start business here and create jobs for others. So that is a huge one that I would love to support. Because we already have a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of programs, so making sure that they get the support that they need. And folks who are in nursing because right now we get a lot of travel nurses. So how do we attract and keep those folks? Teachers, we need teachers so how do we get teachers to come here, but on the salary? They may not be able to afford the Vermont lifestyle.
Mitch Wertlieb: All right, let me stick with you, Esther, because you know, property taxes are such a big thing when it comes to affordability they have jumped significantly across the state this year. William from Windham County is asking us, "How can Vermont sustain the tax burden? And what is your specific plan to tamp down property taxes?"
Esther Charlestin: Yes, I will say the property taxes especially this year, were not OK. A lot of folks were struggling to pay them. They were outraged why there was a lot of budgets, the school budgets that did not pass. And the folks who felt the burden were the low to middle income, who were barely holding on or maybe one emergency away from losing their house or not being able to pay their property taxes or bills. So one thing I would do is work with the legislature around tax credits for those who can't afford it to help them wade this time, but also make sure we have a fair taxing system for those who have higher wages, that making sure they pay their fair share.
Mitch Wertlieb: Peter Duval, same question to you, your specific plan to tamp down property taxes.
Peter Duval: Well, the taxes need to be paid one way or another. So we're going to end up paying some amount of money, just depends on how it's spread around. And most people pay on their income from property taxes and related to their residence and curtilage around the house. And I think there there's an issue with having the cliff for that income sensitivity, that people that are very wealthy are paying on the property value and maybe amplify the message about property taxes being high so I would look at eliminating that cap on the income sensitivity and let it go up into the nether regions of income, and then work on doing a fair allocation of taxes overall, using what I think Barbara Snelling once wanted to do, an overhaul of all the taxes and see what their effect is.
Mitch Wertlieb: And, very quickly, would you have a number for limiting that cap?
Peter Duval: I would say just eliminate the cap for residents and property owners and allow, you know, differential property tax rate for nonresidential property like second homes and vacation, resorts and stuff like that.
Climate change
Mitch Wertlieb: OK, we're gonna move on now to what really was the biggest topic, the most asked question on our Citizens Agenda here. And this is dealing with climate change. One way the Legislature is trying to address this is through the passage of the Climate Superfund Act, which would hold Big Oil accountable for damage sustained by climate change. Peter Duval, do you support that legislation? Why or why not?
Peter Duval: Well, just a couple of days ago, Conservation Law Foundation filed a notice of intent to sue the state to comply with the GWSA and that's only dealing with that the act itself, which has a fundamental flaw that has flowed through all of the efforts of the state to address climate — and that is that biogenic emissions are not properly accounted for in the state, and failing to properly measure the emissions and project into the future. What's going to happen in terms of regulation is a huge risk for the state. It's very, very important that the state get a handle on those emissions, and then work immediately to reduce them and of course, shutting down McNeil, retiring McNeil generating station and Ryegate, two big biomass plants that are the last in the region.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK, I want to get to, I hate to cut you off there but I wanna get to a follow up question for you on this, because many communities around the state have flooded, some three times in a year now. Anon from Grand Isle is asking, "How do we deal with the fact that our roads are basically built by rivers?" is the question.
Peter Duval: Yeah, well, one of the second part of of my answer was that addressing with those woodchip power plants right away would make a nice cut in greenhouse gas emissions in Vermont. But to get even further, and to meet the deadlines that are next year, and in our GWSA, we need to reduce the fleet, the car fleet in Vermont. Every time we get cars off the road, that's an expense that Vermonters no longer have to pay. It's, those are emissions that are do not happen, and we can reduce the road infrastructure and pruning the road infrastructure as a way to get back to having strong towns and a strong state.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK, and very quickly, one word answer, do you support the Climate Superfund Act?
Peter Duval: Sure, I mean, it's, there's, there's a lot of —
Mitch Wertlieb: Alright, I'm gonna I'm so sorry, we're tight, we're tight on time.
Peter Duval: Well, I was watching the clock.
Mitch Wertlieb: I totally understand that. Thank you. And I appreciate you appreciating the time. Esther, same question to you, the Climate Superfund Act. This is again, an attempt to get big oil companies to pay for whatever damage has been done due to climate change. Do you support that?
Esther Charlestin: I absolutely do. Yes. It, and using that money to really help make sure our state is in a better place because climate change is real. A few weeks ago, I was in Barre, I was out canvassing after the flood again, and knocking on doors really asking folks what do they need? And the need is still great. So will it happen again? I suspect so. And so how do we pay for making sure our state is in a good place to handle it, that communities are okay, that the roads can be rebuilt in a different way, and one that is sustainable and can make sure will be good in the future?
Mitch Wertlieb: Let me ask you this, though, because Gov. Phil Scott, he let this become law without his signature. One of the things he was worried about, he said, was Big Oil companies with lots of money, lots of high-powered lawyers who would kind of drain the state of Vermont when these lawsuits are brought out. They're not going to take this lying down, obviously. So would the cost you know of bringing these lawsuits against Big Oil outweigh the benefits?
Esther Charlestin: I don't think so. I trust our attorney general to do the job and to have her team to support her. But I, we cannot be afraid, we can't operate in fear, and our Vermonters deserve better, we deserve better. And what we need is to make sure we're able to afford what's been happening because of climate change, and the folks who are a part of the problem need to pay.
Mitch Wertlieb: Christina from Barre City is concerned about energy costs. Vermont's average electricity price is the 10th highest in the nation, according to the Energy Information Administration. Esther, how do you propose addressing climate change while keeping affordability top of mind?
Esther Charlestin: Absolutely. Not too long ago, I had to pay oil, and oil doubled since 2020. And so I am in full support of finding sustainable ways to make sure that people can afford their electricity and there are ways out there outside of oil, so coming up with or supporting projects that allow people to transition from oil to electricity, and having making sure that they're able to pay for it, and it's not as much as oil.
Questions from candidates for each other
Esther Charlestin: Hey Peter. In the same week that we celebrated the historic possibility of Kamala Harris being the first black woman president, we also mourn the tragic, tragic and unacceptable death of Sonya Massey. As the head of the state, how would you use your voice to show solidarity in the celebrations and tragedies?
Peter Duval: Well, I don't think it's going to be that effective to deal with those tragedies and celebrations in the moment. But the thing to do is to look ahead and think about things that would be effective in addressing structural racism and, and dealing with all of the ways in which people are oppressed in Vermont. And so that would be my goal or my focus, attention, put on the long term and looking forward to a better future.
Mitch Wertlieb: Esther, do you have any follow up you'd like to ask with that?
Esther Charlestin: No.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK.
Peter Duval: OK, well, I'll keep on the theme. Police traffic stops are widely regarded as dangerous and racially biased. To reduce fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions, while also reducing road casualties as recommended in Act 200 agency plans from a while back, would you pursue reducing the speed limit on Vermont's interstate highways to 55 miles per hour and, as an antiracism effort, to reduce police traffic stops, would you use automated speed cameras to enforce that speed limit as recommended in the Vermont bicycle and pedestrian coalition legislative agenda?
Esther Charlestin: All right, I would say the speed limit to 55, you said? I would be OK with that. Yeah, I don't see that being an issue. Reducing police stops by replacing them with speed camera? I would be open to that with a great plan on how do we pay for it.
Peter Duval: OK, well, they kind of pay for themselves with fines.
Mitch Wertlieb: Do you have any follow up with that Peter, that you'd like to ask Esther?
Peter Duval: No, that’s alright.
Mitch Wertlieb: Esther, to you.
Esther Charlestin: Vermonters across the state are grappling with the opioid crisis. In our last forum, you mentioned that you do not support harm reduction methods such as overdose prevention centers. How do you plan to address the opioid crisis affecting so many Vermonters?
Peter Duval: Well, what I did say was that I don't think overdose prevention centers would address root cause of this drug. It's not just opioids, it's drugs generally, the supply of these drugs, and would make it easier for users to continue to use. The way to address that is to get the supply back into official channels. Back to the point where doctors are prescribing medications for addiction that aren't for addicts, and having a safer supply that causes the underground market to shrivel up. And with a strong interdiction program, I think we can close the spigot on new users in Vermont.
Mitch Wertlieb: You have an opportunity for a follow up, Esther, if you'd like.
Esther Charlestin: That is all.
Mitch Wertlieb: Okay. Peter to you.
Peter Duval: Okay, well, let's get back to climate. I've proposed the immediate retirement of McNeil and Ryegate. And there's so many reasons to do that. And so much money beings to be saved with that sort of maneuver and getting on track with GWSA goals. What would you do on day one to get Vermont back on track for meeting those goals?
Esther Charlestin: Would you repeat the question?
Peter Duval: Yeah, so closing McNeil and Ryegate, that's hundreds of thousands of metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions cut off per year. Shrinking the automobile fleet, we're talking about even larger reductions in greenhouse gas emissions. Also, both things are money saving for Vermonters, what, what would you do on day one, we have really short a term to fill here. What would you do to get Vermont off the dime and get some reductions in place?
Esther Charlestin: I would really support our public transit, to make sure that people know that there's other options, commuter options, and investing in making our towns walkable so that folks don't have to travel very far, that sidewalks are paved. And so that would be my day one project.
Peter Duval: OK. Thank you.
Mitch Wertlieb: Esther?
Esther Charlestin: Peter, what gives you hope?
Peter Duval: Well, what gives me joy is getting out in the world, getting to doing hiking, getting out on the water, going for a run. Those are all joyful experiences for me. And the way that relates the government is, I think, something that government should make it possible for people to have joyful experiences. At the same time, I think government itself doesn't run on hope. It runs on duty, and I want citizens to recognize that it is a duty to make democracy work to get involved in democracy. And it's a duty of public officials to behave like they're fulfilling a duty. And so hope is, its a nice sounding word. But I really think that government needs to fulfill its duties rather than work on hope.
Mitch Wertlieb: Any follow up to that, Esther?
Esther Charlestin: I do. We're living in a time that's divisive. And so that duty as head of state includes bringing people together. How do you envision doing that?
Peter Duval: Well, the role of the governor is to make the government function and it is important to have fun and and joyful experience. I would do it by making sure that there’s sufficient recreation opportunity for Vermonters and there it's, we have a naturally available space in Vermont and all of the outdoors and wilderness that Vermont maintains and that's, I think, a good way to get people out.
Mitch Wertlieb: And Peter, we have one time for one last question for you to ask Esther Charlestin.
Peter Duval: Alright, this is goofy question. Vermont governors — and it's related to the bringing people together idea — Vermont governors, sometimes host business and government leaders from other countries. With Japan, Vermont has a marketing and trade relations leg up on other states. Our state's name is prominently displayed on the box of a popular curry sauce [House Foods]. That is sold in 7/11 and other convenience stores all over Japan.
Mitch Wertlieb: Peter, I’ll have ask you to speed up this question, I’m sorry.
Peter Duval: What two Vermonty flavors are featured in [House Foods]? And for bonus points, what color is the box?
Esther Charlestin: I hope maple as we have plenty here in our great state. And I hope green because green represents us.
Peter Duval: That would make sense. It’s apples and honey and it’s a yellow box, but, thank you.
Mitch Wertlieb: Thank you, little trivia we've learned today. That's excellent. Esther, we have time for one question for you to ask Peter.
Esther Charlestin: Would you be open to endorsing Kamala Harris?
Peter Duval: Yeah. No, no, I would. Nobody's asked me that before. But, yeah.
Mitch Wertlieb: I'm guessing there's no follow up to that one. Pretty clear.
Esther Charlestin: Why?
Peter Duval: Why? We need responsible people in government.
Political polarization
Mitch Wertlieb: Catherine from Chittenden County asks, "What can every Vermont politician do to avoid dysfunctional partisan and polarized politics in our beloved state, how do you foster harmony and bipartisanship?" So, Esther Charlestin, How would you answer that question?
Esther Charlestin: Building relationships, really, it comes down to building relationships, I believe it's important in this time to bring all of us together. And we are better when we know each other, when you know your neighbor. And so I would invest in building those relationships, making time in having regular meetings, and this would, all politicians can do open communication, mutual respect, so important, and finding those win-win solutions where we all benefit.
Mitch Wertlieb: Okay, Peter, same question to you. How do we deal with these times of polarization here in Vermont?
Peter Duval: Well, all of those things that Esther mentioned, but I bring a special feature, and that is that I am a fusion candidate, I am not part of any party machine. And that allows me to talk to everybody.
Mitch Wertlieb: You are running as a Democrat.
Peter Duval: I am, I am, but the way the election system is set up in Vermont, it's really necessary, quite necessary to run in a primary. And this is the primary that is effective for my campaign. So I'm a fusion candidate. I'll talk to everybody.
Child care
Mitch Wertlieb: Okay, Peg in Rutland County asks, "What do you believe the state's role in addressing the lack of affordable and accessible child care should be?" Peter?
Peter Duval: I think that my proposal to extend the school time is kind of an important thing to do. Getting universal pre-K, while also getting grade 13 established, so that people have a good longtime school support. But also providing at the infant level funding to parents, perhaps as an insurance product, so that at the time when it's most expensive to provide child care, parents are more involved.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK. And Esther Charlestin, same question to you. What about this role of child care in the state?
Esther Charlestin: It's a big one, and one that I know personally, I believe everyone deserves access to affordable, and a child care center, we have some areas where you can't find one. I know for me, I had two children in child care at the same time, but they only had one spot. So I had to drive a half hour to another town to put my son in a different child care center. And so I believe it's important as a state that we make it affordable, have programs for those who are struggling to be able to have their children in childcare, because having parents in the workforce is so important, and supporting those child care centers.
Health care
Mitch Wertlieb: We're gonna move on to concerns about health care. Now, costs are up. A lot of comments that we received from our audience this year deal with health care and Vermont expects to see double digit increases to health care premiums. As governor, Esther Charlestin, how would you help address the rising cost of health care?
Esther Charlestin: Rising cost of health care is so scary, and especially earlier, we learned that it'll raise 25%. And so people are freaking out, understandably. So I believe it would be important to invest in primary care, so that folks are able to go to the doctor when something comes up and not wait until it gets worse. And then it becomes like an emergency room bill, which can be about like $3,000 or so making sure that more Vermonters can have Medicaid coverage, because we know a lot of folks in 2023 were let go.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK, I appreciate that. Peter, same question to you. How do we control health care costs?
Peter Duval: Well, first of all, I want to distinguish between health and medical services, that the thing that's very costly is the medical services. It's not costly to have good health. It's a matter of eating well, getting exercise, getting plenty of sleep. Those are all things that reduce demand for medical services. And the state not being a medical care provider can work on that side of the health question.
Mitch Wertlieb: That sounds like a messaging thing to me. But what do you do about the fact that Vermont is a very old state, we have a very old population, people are going to get sick, they're going to have problems that you can't fix from eating well, for example.
Peter Duval: Well, as I said, the state's not the medical care provider, and it's not the medical insurance provider. That was attempt, was attempted, the Shumlin attempt to have a universal insurance program, there was a chickening out that happened.
Mitch Wertlieb: You'd be in favor of that.
Peter Duval: Well, if you ever see, I mean, you could try again. But my thinking is, work on the demand side, incrementally work on making sure people are as healthy as they possibly can be. And that's something that state can do.
Illegal drug use
Mitch Wertlieb: Thank you, we have to move on. That was my fault for asking the extra question. That was not you just want to make that clear. Judy, from Chittenden. County writes, "How do you plan to address the growing illegal drug use that is so openly visible in our cities and towns? She says I understand it is a very complex problem and needs a multi pronged approach. How will you help with the drug use problem?" Peter?
Peter Duval: Right. So I mentioned this earlier, I think the key thing is making sure there's good interdiction and making sure that we work on getting the demand out of the informal or the underground market, and make sure that medical supervision is provided for safer supply. That sounds like a radical thing, but it's working in other places. And we need, we've got a desperate situation, we need to try everything.
Mitch Wertlieb: Esther Charlestin, same question to you — the drug use problem in Vermont, how would you approach that as governor?
Esther Charlestin: Well, I would approach it making sure that we educate young folks, because I think the marketing is for young people to get into it. And so making sure that they know the dangers and working with school districts. I would say having Medicaid cover 90-day treatment centers to make sure that the folks are getting the help that they need. So yes, they can stop. But what about the support after would be important, and working with police to make sure it's cracked down.
Mitch Wertlieb: Very briefly, would you be in favor of safe injection sites? Like Burlington is going to apparently have in a couple of year?
Esther Charlestin: With the right plan, I would be open to it.
Refugees
Mitch Wertlieb: OK, something you'd be open to, thank you. Last year, more than 500 refugees were resettled in Vermont. This year, Vermont was set to take up another 600 refugees, but had to lower their intake. And this is because of the housing crisis, which we were talking about before. D. Stoddard from Chittenden is asking, ‘How would you address the long term social and economic needs of refugees living in Vermont?" Esther, we'll start with you.
Esther Charlestin: I would say… I pause because I have immigrant parents who came to this country and made the best and have five children. And we are thriving here. And we are able to create beautiful families and lives here. So to think about the refugees who are coming in and knowing the support, they get matters and can actually make our state even better and greater, because they are interested, from what I've seen in my travel, they're interested in being active citizens here. So I would be invested in making sure they get the support that they need.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK, let's let Peter answer that same question about Vermont's refugee population, what would you do to support it? Or, you know, what would your strategy be?
Peter Duval: Well, I think they're pretty good systems in place for advocacy and support right now, they just need to be maintained and well funded. From a governance perspective, I looked at the Vermont constitution, which provided voting rights for all inhabitants. And I would look at making sure that we're changing the constitution if necessary, so that all over the state residents can vote. And that would be an empowering thing to do. And it would be a universal thing to do.
Mitch Wertlieb: Very briefly, it sounds to me like you're saying you would support noncitizens being able to vote in local elections.
Peter Duval: Yes, and if it is possible, statewide elections.
Lightning round
Mitch Wertlieb: Thank you. We have time for a brief lightning round before the end of this debate. So please keep your answers as short as possible. 10 seconds or less. I know it's a challenge. And let's start with you, Peter. Name a Vermonter who inspires you.
Peter Duval: Ralph Flanders was a senator who stood up to McCarthyism, and I think that's a great thing.
Mitch Wertlieb: Esther Charlestin, a Vermonter who inspires you?
Esther Charlestin: Becca Ballard. Yes, she is a powerhouse and made Vermont her home and is now representing us in a beautiful way.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK, what is the most pressing issue you think Vermont is facing today? Esther?
Esther Charlestin: The housing crisis.
Mitch Wertlieb: Peter?
Peter Duval: It's climate.
Mitch Wertlieb: Climate, okay. Should Vermont raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour? It is currently $13.67 per hour. Peter?
Peter Duval: I think that's probably too low. I think we should define it as a livable wage and make sure that the tip wage is eliminated so that everybody is paid a minimum wage.
Mitch Wertlieb: Esther?
Esther Charlestin: I believe it should go up.Yes.
Mitch Wertlieb: More than the $15?
Esther Charlestin: More than the $15.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK. Question number four. Do you think we should increase wages for Vermont lawmakers? Esther?
Esther Charlestin: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yes, it's important. They're doing great and hard work and it limits who can run and who can participate.
Mitch Wertlieb: Peter?
Peter Duval: The governor needs friends in the Legislature, of course. So yeah.
Mitch Wertlieb: So you mean, OK. Well, that's great. Is sports betting a net positive or a negative for Vermonters? Peter?
Peter Duval: Negative. I think we should try to remove the profit incentive from gambling, liquor and smoking and combine those in a non-commercial supply chain.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK, Esther, your feelings on sports betting in Vermont? I'm not hearing a strong either way on this one.
Esther Charlestin: As long as it's regulated.
Mitch Wertlieb: Okay. Question number six. What's one issue in Vermont that does not get enough air time or an issue that we have talked about yet today that you wish we had? Esther, we'll start with you on that one?
Esther Charlestin: Education, education and teachers and what folks need to be successful students and teachers, administrators and how how we are to support them.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK. And Peter, to you.
Peter Duval: Well, Stewart Ledbetter told me to stick with one issue and it's McNeil. That's the huge costs that go into keeping those biomass power plants alive. We've got to stop that.
Mitch Wertlieb: OK. We now have time for a closing statement from each candidate. And we determined the order via coin flip beforehand, and Esther Charlestin, you will start us off.
Esther Charlestin: Have you ever had that experience that no matter how hard you tried, it wasn't enough? You gave it your all but then someone put you down like a loved one, a friend or a boss, a landlord, a bank or the government? Well, you're not alone. I'm running for governor because I know that we cannot give up. We have to keep fighting. No matter the odds. No matter the naysayers who proclaim that you cannot make a difference. They are wrong. You matter and we all matter. But too many Vermonters are in despair. And as I travel the state, I hear that people are working hard, taking care of their children and doing their best. But no matter what their efforts are, it's hard to keep up with housing and too many people fear they are one medical emergency away, or a house sale away, from being on the streets. So I'm running for governor to speak up and make that difference. Please visit Estherforvermont.com to learn more. Thank you.
Mitch Wertlieb: Thank you, Esther. And Peter Duval, your closing statement.
Peter Duval: Red and blue teams are not getting the job done. They play a zero sum game of ping pong using the same tired crisis rhetoric. Both teams have lost track of the ball and both teams are comfortable with the status quo political duopoly. Vermont needs to break out of that political game to foster new perspectives about the problems and opportunities. I'm a fusion candidate running for governor so that voters who care about our planet, the only habitable planet in the known universe, have a choice in the voting booth. I'm running to change the language ideas and framing of political debate. We all know that only a candidate named Phil is going to win. So this time, make a protest vote. And please write in Peter Duval for governor on the Republican and Progressive ballots and check my printed name on the Democratic ballot. If you really want to make a statement, cross over to the Progressive ballot, and write in Peter Duval for governor. Thank you. Peterforvermont.earth.
Broadcast live on July 25 at noon; rebroadcast at 7 p.m.
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